Taking the Clock Off the Table: Norchelle Brown’s IVF Journey

Conversations around fertility and IVF are often filled with stigma, silence, and stories rooted in struggle. But what happens when the conversation shifts toward empowerment, proactive care, and choice?

In this episode of Voices of Inclusive Research, Dr. Renarda speaks with Norchelle Brown about her personal egg freezing and IVF journey as a Black woman navigating reproductive healthcare. 

From emotional preparation and daily injections to financial considerations and representation in fertility clinics, Norchelle offers an honest and transparent look into a process many women are curious about but rarely hear discussed openly within their communities.

This conversation highlights why inclusive healthcare conversations matter and why representation, awareness, and community-centered education are essential in reproductive health spaces.

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

• Reclaiming Choice: Why Norchelle decided to pursue egg freezing proactively rather than waiting until fertility challenges arose
• Taking the Clock Off the Table: How fertility preservation helped remove pressure and anxiety around timelines and life decisions
• Representation in Fertility Care: The emotional impact of navigating fertility clinics where very few patients or providers reflected her identity
• The Reality Behind IVF: Breaking down misconceptions about injections, procedures, recovery, and what the process actually feels like
• Financial and Insurance Barriers: Why understanding insurance coverage and fertility networks can make a major difference in access to care

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Transcript

Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies

Dr. Ren: Okay. Welcome to another episode of Voices of Inclusive Research podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Ren, founder of Diverse Research Now, and today you will hear the voice of Norchelle Brown. Norchelle is a Watts, Los Angeles native and a first-generation college graduate with a passion for advocating for underserved communities.

She earned a dual d- bachelor's degree in sociology and African American studies from UC Riverside, followed by a master's in social work with a focus on community organizing from USC. Norchelle's career spans notable civil rights organizations, the Los Angeles Board of Education, and even working for a member of Congress, where she advanced health policy during the COVID-19 pandemic.

In 2021, she founded 850 East, a consulting agency dedicated to addressing social inequalities. Since 2023, Norchelle has also served in a key role at Pfizer, furthering her commitment to improving community health and equity. So as you can see, Norchelle is a, a powerhouse in her career life. But today she has been so gracious to share about a personal journey with us, and we both thought it was important to highlight her experience with IVF, especially for the Black community, because we realized that research has shown that Black women often have less access to fertility care and sometimes different outcomes.

So we wanted to bring this important conversation to VIR, and so we're so grateful. So let's get started. How are you doing today, Norchelle? I'm good. 

Norchelle Brown: Thank you so much for that intro. That was really, really powerful. 

Dr. Ren: Of course. That's all you, girl. That's 

Norchelle Brown: all 

Dr. Ren: you. 

Norchelle Brown: It's 

Dr. Ren: all me? So tell us a little bit more.

Thank you for actually... So first of all, thank you for being so vulnerable. I think this conversation, it could be something that, you know, you wanna keep to yourself, but I appreciate- Yeah ... you bringing this to the community so other Black women, other women, period, can understand this journey and- Mm-hmm

see if it's a good option for them. so tell us about your journey, your IVF journey. 

Norchelle Brown: Thank you. thanks again for having me on. my journey- I first wanna start by saying, you know, in no way are we making light of the journey that women have when it comes to infertility.

I'm just sharing my journey as far as- Mm-hmm ... being proactive in that space. And so- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... again, wanna thank you for having me on. I know a lot of young women who will hopefully, be able to gain something from this conversation. Yes. But my journey came about as I turned 35 last summer.

Okay. Kemba's gonna say that. I turned 35 last summer, and of course, all women hear that, at 35 your fertility, I guess rates start to decrease. And so- I, for the past 10 years have been like, "Oh, I don't know if children are for me." Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But when I turned 34, I was like, "Maybe I should start considering, egg freezing."

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so this has been something on my mind for a while. 

Dr. Ren: Mm-hmm. 

Norchelle Brown: And I completed the journey about a month ago today. Okay. And so I'm so happy that, we can have this conversation today. 

Dr. Ren: Awesome. Before your journey- what messages or beliefs did you hear about IVF  especially within the Black community?

Like, what was you... What did you know about it? 

Norchelle Brown: I had never heard Black women speaking of it. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. 

Norchelle Brown: Um, it was always other groups, talking about their journeys, mostly from infertility. It wasn't about being proactive and egg freezing- or FROM freezing embryos. it was always about, you know, trying with your partner and not being able to conceive, and the journey that it took to either conceive or, the struggles that come with that.

And so- Mm-hmm ... when I started to hear more from doctors, actually one of them, Dr. Jackie Walters, I would hear her talking about it online a lot. Mm-hmm. And, I decided that I think my course of action would be egg freezing, and so that's what I decided to do. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. What... Tell me, how did you come to that decision?

what influenced that decision for you? 

Norchelle Brown: I guess I'm really impulsive, just in everything in life. If I have something in my 

mind- Uh-huh ... and 

and it seems like something I can get done, I'm gonna do it. And so, once I had the idea, I was like, "Yeah, That's just what I'm gonna do." It seemed like the option was there.

Mm-hmm. Um, I started to hear more women talking about the journey. it's not ever what you expect it to be. 

but it was something that I knew, was an option to me, that I didn't know before. And so when I, realized that, I wanted to go ahead and make that move 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, because you didn't know, and, and I think that it's amazing because you n- now are giving yourself the option to choose. Mm-hmm. Because you still are not sure, right? If you want- No ... to have children or not. But now you- No ... know that if, when you make that decision, likeyou can do it.

Norchelle Brown: Yeah, absolutely. It's so funny, once my mom actually took me for the procedure. I was, like, hesitant to tell her 'cause- ... I know if I tell her, she's 

Dr. Ren: gonna tell- What was her reaction? Oh, my goodness. 

Norchelle Brown: say? Well, i- it's funny because I had the procedure done maybe a couple weeks after my niece was born, so we were all just in bliss of having this new baby-

and it's my first niece. Yeah. My mom's first granddaughter, and- Yeah ... it's funny because she wants me to have a daughter so bad. So I feel like she was excited, like, "Oh, great, so there's still a chance you might have kids." 

Dr. Ren: Ok- okay. 

Norchelle Brown: So when she, after she took me, I was like, fine, you can tell your sister, and that's it."

"Don't go and share with the world what I just did." And so, I did get a, a text from my aunt who, she was just like, "You know, I'm really proud of you. This is just not something that-" I knew about when I, was coming of age. Yeah. And so, she was like, "If I had the opportunity, I definitely would've done that."

And she was like- Yeah ... "You're gonna be a great mom." And I was like, "Hold on." Aw. "Pump your brakes. I don't know if that's the life I want," but I'm happy I have the choice. 

Dr. Ren: Exactly. Giving yourself choices, empowering yourself. Absolutely ... that's amazing. 

Norchelle Brown: Yeah. One of my colleagues who kinda helped walk me through the process because, of course, at the same job we have similar insurance and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm. And so one thing that she said that really stuck with me is that you're taking the clock off the table. Ah, ha. Like, it's no longer, it's no longer- I like that ... like, in your mind, like, "Oh, I don't have time." Like- 

Dr. Ren: Yes ... "

Norchelle Brown: What am I gonna do?" It's, I don't, I didn't really think of it before. It was always in the back of my mind, but now I don't even think about it.

Dr. Ren: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Norchelle Brown: It's awesome. 

Dr. Ren: Like, 'cause that could bring anxiety, like, to- Absolutely. Yes ... and ma- and it might make you make bad decisions. 

Norchelle Brown: have several friends that I'm like, "You should consider, this process," because I can just see them making some choices, and I'm like, "Girl, don't do it." But yeah, so- 

Dr. Ren: Yeah

Norchelle Brown: it's important. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. So what does the emotional journey look like? Because I feel like, I don't know anything about this. I know a lot of women don't. and maybe that might be a barrier or something they worry about when it comes to the emotional piece- 

of this journey. Totally. How did, how did that go for you? 

Norchelle Brown: I feel like women who are experiencing infertility, it will be a totally different experience for them. For me, I kinda had this joy and excitement after I kinda got over seeing the first few needles and doing the injections- Okay

and stuff myself. Okay, okay. Um, it was just a little bit more, joyous and exciting for me. emotionally, I can't say that I was, either happy or sad. I was just kinda relieved that this was one less thing I would have to think about- Okay ... in the future. Like I said, I'm a little impulsive, and I like to plan.

Mm-hmm. And so this is, one thing that I'm not gonna really stress about- Yep ... in the future. So I was happy about that. Yeah. Now, with the hormones and the injections, that does bring about certain emotions. 

Dr. Ren: I was gonna ask about, the timing of everything. Like, how long did you have to go through the process and the timing and all that?

Norchelle Brown: Yes. So the process of injections, I feel like it depends, on the woman and how faster, your follicles are growing. But, I would say I did injections for 

a little bit over two weeks, actually. I started- Okay ... I think around, early March, and my egg retrieval was, on the 20th.

So- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... it was a little over two weeks of injections. the process wasn't too strenuous. I chose a clinic that was about an hour away. You don't have to do that. Ah, okay. I just kinda went over the reviews, Yeah ... and I decided to go with this particular clinic out in Orange County. Mm-hmm.

And so, with that, I had to wake up very early every morning and drive out there. Not every morning, but every other morning you have to drive out there. 

Dr. Ren: Okay, okay. 

Norchelle Brown: you have to do blood work every other day because they're monitoring how these hormones are- causing one thing or another. And so that's a process I don't think many people, discuss, was all the blood work, all the needles.

It's a lot of needles every day. Mm. Um, 

Dr. Ren: I 

Norchelle Brown: think going into it, I thought it was just, like, one shot every day for a number of weeks to months. I didn't really know what the timeline would be. Okay. it ended up being maybe two to three needles every day, two to three- Oh, okay ... injections every day.

Okay, 

Dr. Ren: okay. 

Norchelle Brown: But when I tell you, the first, night that I had to prepare this medication, and you do have to mix things. It's like you're a scientist literally. You have to mix things and prepare the injections and everything. Mm-hmm. Once I did that, I'm sitting at my kitchen counter, and I'm like- Mm-hmm

"What have I got 

Dr. Ren: myself into?" 

Norchelle Brown: Like- ... I literally have to, like, inject myself with these things. And it wasn't the medication, it was the needles that were really- Yeah ... bothering me. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. I feel- 

Norchelle Brown: But honestly, once I did it, I was like, "Oh." It wasn't bad at all. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. 

Norchelle Brown: And then I had a couple other, people I know through work who had gone through it, and they were like, "If you ice it, you literally don't feel a thing."

Okay. Okay. And so literally icing it for a minute right before injecting, you don't feel a thing. Okay. And so I think that's something people should know. Like,I would definitely do it over again, and I can see how- Okay ... women are able to do multiple rounds, because- Mm ... that part is not as difficult as it seemed.

I feel like for me, the most difficult part was getting up early and driving out to Orange County- Yeah ... every other 

Dr. Ren: day. Yeah. Mm. I mean, dedication. You have to be dedicated to this process. 

Norchelle Brown: I know. And I understand how that can be a barrier, too. Yeah. Imagine women who already have children- Yep ... or who have to work.

I work from home, so I have a little bit more flexibility. Yeah. But I can just imagine what that would be like trying to get to clinic, the clinic every other day- Yep ... to have these, you know, numbers read and do these ultrasounds every other day, so. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. 

Norchelle Brown: It can be a barrier, for sure. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. Okay, so what are some of the other barriers that you think, that might come up or has come up?

Like, any financial barriers. what about the cultural barriers? Like, 'cause I'm wondering- Yeah ... was your experience culturally, since we know that n- not many Black women are going this route. Yeah. So I'm wondering what the doctors are saying or, like- 

Norchelle Brown: Yeah. No, absolutely. It's funny because- I kinda walked in the clinic already expecting not to see much of myself.

Dr. Ren: Mm, mm-hmm. 

Norchelle Brown: and I didn't. Mm-mm, mm-hmm. The only other Black woman I saw in the room the entire time I was there was one of the women who worked at the front desk. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. 

Norchelle Brown: other than that, I didn't see any other Black people, unfortunately. and that was something I really took notice to. remember, I'm there almost every single day for three weeks- Right

and not seeing anybody who looks- Wow ... like me outside of someone at the front desk. 

but I'm kinda used to it. In my space, in my work, you know- 

Dr. Ren: Yeah, 

Norchelle Brown: there's not many of us who are represented in medicine or represented- 

Dr. Ren: Mm-hmm, 

Norchelle Brown: mm-hmm ... as, you know, patient advocates. And so- I'm kinda used to it, but I can understand how it can be a little off-putting for women who, are really, really, becoming or wanting to see more Black women- Mm-hmm ... in these spaces. 

Dr. Ren: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then what about the financial barriers? Do you foresee any or- Oh, I did ... like, what is that like, the financial part? 

Norchelle Brown: Yeah, so you know what? I'll talk about the piece of it that I just did not know, and it's- Okay

insurance. Uh-huh. It was one major part of that. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. Um, 

Norchelle Brown: I remember for years before I even thought about doing this, this was something that I thought you had to pay out of pocket. 

Dr. Ren: Mm-hmm. 

Norchelle Brown: So in my mind, I was preparing to pay at least, like, 10 to $15,000 out of pocket. This is just in my mind.

I'm like- Uh-huh ... "I don't know how I'm gonna do it- Uh-huh ... but I'm gonna figure out getting this done." Uh-huh. And so I contacted my colleague, and she was like, "Well, you know, our insurance..." I do wanna share that insurance coverage has come a long way when it comes to IVF and infertility. 

but I do wanna say that my colleague, she shared that our insurance through our employer has something called centers of excellence that they have.

Hmm. And so if you go to one of these centers of excellence for fertility- 

Dr. Ren: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... 

Norchelle Brown: basically you get more coverage. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. 

Norchelle Brown: If you go to these specific clinics within the network. And so I do wanna, um, share with anyone listening or watching, make sure to get in contact with your insurance provider and ask if there's any particular clinics that they recommend, or if they have centers of excellence that are a part of the network because they typically are covered, I guess, at a higher rate.

Mm-hmm. And so with that, after my initial consultation with, one of the doctors at the clinic, they do allow you to choose. C- a lot of the clinics have, three or four or even more, providers there, and so they allow you to choose who you wanna go with. I went with a woman provider who, I just felt more comfortable, that way.

Mm-hmm. But, after that initial consultation, they told me I was a good candidate. they kinda were able to see through ultrasound how many eggs I could potentially have in the next cycle. It was, it was very interesting. Okay. But, um, the following appointment I had was a financial consultation. They told me, you know, after looking at insurance, what I was expected to pay out of pocket, and I was prepared to do that.

and I asked, I said, "So is this due... When is this due? Is it now? Is it gonna be after the procedure?" I was t- told that it was due right before the, injections started. Mm-hmm. I still have not paid that. I don't know- 

Dr. Ren: Okay ... 

Norchelle Brown: if I'm going to be receiving a surprise bill. this is the issue that I've talked about, in the past with my former employer, the member of Congress.

This is something that she highlights a lot in her work. you go to the doctor, you go see a specialist, and, you're expecting one thing, and then you receive a surprise bill in the mail, months later or however, later. But I'm hoping it's not that type of situation. I'm hoping my insurance was able to cover it all.

But my, colleague did share what her, expenses looked like, and so I'm, kinda sure that it's gonna be similar to what that was. But- it's not as expensive as people would think. Okay. And then I also wanna talk about storage. Um- People actually... I watched this one podcast, Uh-huh ... 

Dr. Ren: and 

Norchelle Brown: they were talking about, you know, paying rent for your eggs, and it's like, or your embryos.

Wow. Wow. And it's like, "I have to pay rent here, and I have to pay rent there." But it's not, as bad as people would think. I actually got a note, shortly after retrieval that said, you know, my storage was, I believe, around $1,200. but the first year is free. So your storage- Okay ... is $1,200 for the year, not per month.

Okay. That's not bad. But people think rent per month. Yeah. 

Dr. Ren: But that, 

Norchelle Brown: it's literally $1,200, for a year. Okay. And I was like, I can make that happen." 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. 

Norchelle Brown: Yeah. Yeah. And then I think, up until a certain time I'll be like, " Uh, do I need to keep them anymore?" You know? Then you can decide, what you wanna do from that point.

Dr. Ren: Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that people think like... I was just looking at this comedy show the other day, and this lady was talking about embryos that, she had kept. She had all these embryos and then sh- Cause what happens with them? 

Do you think about that? Well, some 

Norchelle Brown: people donate. Some people donate them. 

Dr. Ren: Oh, okay. You can donate them. Okay. 

Norchelle Brown: Yeah. Okay. You can donate them to research, I'm certain, or you can donate them to another, couple who's looking or another individual who's looking to have children. You can donate 

your embryo. And then 

Dr. Ren: that's, I feel like that's,that's a whole nother, like, emotional journey, I feel like. 

Norchelle Brown: It is. Yeah. 

Dr. Ren: Absolutely. 

Norchelle Brown: Yeah. Absolutely. 

Dr. Ren: did you do any, like, research, behind the IVFing, like, as far as, like, studies or anything that- I didn't ... had studied this process?

Norchelle Brown: No, I didn't, but I wish I did. but no, I didn't do much research. I think the research I had done was based off of what I was receiving from my doctors. You know when you go to the doctor- Okay ... they give you results and then you're, like, googling what it means, or they give you medication and you're googling the active ingredients and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm. I think that's the type of research I did. I didn't do much research as far as, like, you know, women my age, my race, my, background, what our outcomes look like. I didn't do much, research on that. 

Dr. Ren: mm-hmm. Yeah, because, as I mentioned in the beginning, we now know, 'cause we looked into it a little bit, because we wanted to, prepare for this episode, that Black women often have less access to fertility care and different outcomes, which one of the outcomes that we found was that it is a disparity with how their outcome, Black women outcomes, I think it was 45%, of live births as compared to 60% of live births for white women.

And, I feel like that's a gap in research. We need to learn more about that, for sure. 

Norchelle Brown: Absolutely. And I think something I do wanna note is that, when I went for my initial, appointment, my doctor was able to pull up this sort of,  calculator that shared- how many eggs you need in order to guarantee a live birth.

And so I can't remember what the numbers were exactly, but it was like, you need, if you're gonna just do egg retrieval, you need between, I'm just gonna make this up.  it's around this number, though. 15 to 20 to guarantee at least one live birth. 

Dr. Ren: Wow, 

Norchelle Brown: okay. Right? And so I'm not sure if those are the numbers, but it's around there, right?

And so that's why you hear some women are having, you know, difficulty with having, multiple different rounds of IVF- Mm-hmm ... or egg retrievals. And so that's something that I think women should consider as well. I mean, there are women who get, like, 30 eggs off of one round. That wasn't my journey.

That wasn't my story. Wow. Yeah. But there are women who end up with that many eggs. And so there's women who... I've been hearing, actually, I watched another podcast where a woman was talking about how a clinic offered her a discount or, like, a deal that if she did multiple rounds, she would pay, you know, this amount less, and she ended up with all these embryos that she didn't even need.

Wow. And now she feels kinda bad because, you know, she doesn't know what to do with them. And so that's a whole nother topic. Whole nother 

Dr. Ren: topic. 

Norchelle Brown: But, you know, there are situations where, you wanna shoot for the stars as far as getting as many eggs as you can. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. the amount of eggs that you get, is it based off of, like, your age?

Is these younger women that are getting, like, more eggs, it's based off your age, right? 

Norchelle Brown: Yes, and the quality of the eggs. That's why I'm not concerned. At 35 y- your quality should still be relatively good. 

Dr. Ren: Good. 

Norchelle Brown: but the older you get, it is suggested that you do multiple rounds so that you get as many eggs as you can so that they are- Mm-hmm

quality eggs. Mm-hmm. And so I'm hoping that all of my eggs are quality eggs- Yeah ... so that if I do decide to, implant and do all that stuff, I do have a great chance of having a live birth, but- 

Dr. Ren: Yeah ... 

Norchelle Brown: it does, age does make a difference for sure. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. and then what about diet?

Did they h- tell you, like, about, like, things that you shouldn't eat or things like... Because I think it all relates t- to how healthy you are too, right? That's 

Norchelle Brown: true. Yeah, for sure. but then also, with women, our fertility is decreasing as we age- This true ... no matter how well we take care of ourselves.

Okay. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. So 

Norchelle Brown: there can be a woman who's ideal as far as her health, but her fertility may be dwindling, you know, as she ages. Yeah. And there's not much you can do about that. Yeah, 

Dr. Ren: 

Norchelle Brown: and so, they didn't really talk about diet. Okay. I feel like the process is just so short that- 

Dr. Ren: Okay

Norchelle Brown: there's not much you're gonna be able to do. But I would suggest if you're considering it, start to take those changes, make those changes early as far as diet and exercise. Mm-hmm. But, if you're just deciding, "Okay, next week, I'm gonna go in and see, a doctor and start the process," you're...

Right. There's not much of a difference it's gonna make- No ... if you try to be healthy during that process. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. Yeah. what would you say to other Black women, or women period who are considering IVF and, but they feel a little unsure and hesitant about it? 

Norchelle Brown: I would suggest it. I certainly would.

It was not at all what I thought it would be. I feel like what we see as far as women who want to be proactive in this space, we see women who are dealing with infertility, and so we see the stressful side of it. We see the painful side of it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We don't see the side where it's, just an opportunity for you to take that stress off of Yeah

your back, right? And so I would certainly suggest it to any woman I know who is considering having children, or who is still unsure, but they're, aging. I would definitely recommend it. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. Yeah. I do feel like we tend to, like, highlight the negative parts, like you said, the infertility or the unfortunate pieces of this.

Norchelle Brown: Yeah, 

Dr. Ren: the challenges of part of the story that is positive. Again, it's empowering you, as a woman, taking the-- I like that comment that your coworker said, taking the clock off the table. I love that. and again, I think that more women should think about that.

Of course, and I feel like with, the way that this world is going, we are having children later. Yeah. Like, I feel like people are definitely having children later. They're focusing on their careers and things first- before the children come, so they need to know more about these opportunities, for sure.

Norchelle Brown: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I do wanna share a little bit about after the procedure and what the procedure is like. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. Uh-huh, 

Norchelle Brown: uh-huh. Okay. most of the stuff is done very early in the morning. so my procedure, honestly, just drove to the site where it was done. You're getting prepped pretty much just like any other procedure or surgery.

it's about 45 minutes to an hour. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. 

Norchelle Brown: It's outpatient, so you are back in the car. Not you driving. You can't drive yourself because it's, you'll be sedated, and so you can't drive after that. But, You're back with whoever drove you there, within, I would say, a matter of two or three hours, and you're on your way home.

they will tell you right after the procedure how many eggs that they got and if they were quality eggs, so that's a good thing to go home with that understanding, like, "Oh, okay, good. I had a really good procedure." or, "No, I have to go back and do a second round because I didn't get, what I wanted."

And so, the process of healing, I would say, takes about a couple days to start to feel like yourself again. I, myself, I gained, like, 10 pounds right after the procedure. 

Dr. Ren: Okay. 

Norchelle Brown: And it was a lot of fluid, and so- Uh-huh ... they do suggest, they do suggest after that, like, your diet and, exercise after that.

Mm-hmm. a lot of fluids to, drain it all out, but I did lose it within a matter of days, so I know some women might be- Okay ... a bit worried about that. 

but I did lose that weight within, I would say, a week or so. and after that, I felt literally no pain whatsoever. and that was the journey.

It's not what people, believe it is, and so I'm just happy that I can share, what my journey was with everybody. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Nurchelle. Um, am so grateful for your voice in this. I'm hoping that something that was shared today encourages other women to, do this if they've been thinking about it, you know?

I think it's amazing. again, I am one to love ... I love to empower my community, and I think this is such an empowering, story, so thank you so much for sharing. 

Norchelle Brown: No, absolutely. One last thing I do wanna share. I mentioned going- Oh, 

Dr. Ren: okay. Sure, sure ... to 

Norchelle Brown: the clinics. I mentioned going to the clinics often, but you're only there max 30 minutes every time that you go.

Dr. Ren: Okay. Okay. So 

Norchelle Brown: it's not like you're there all day getting monitored and hooked up to machines and everything. You're there max 30 minutes, and you're on your way to- 

Dr. Ren: Okay ... 

Norchelle Brown: get on with your day 

Dr. Ren: I actually do have last question about how would someone start this conversation? is this something that they take to their doctor or their gynecologist?

Like, where does this conversation start on this journey? Like ... 

Norchelle Brown: Yeah, I would say if you are someone who's had, significant challenges with, conceiving, certainly start with your OBGYN. I mentioned it to my OBGYN a couple years ago- Mm-hmm ... but I didn't take ... I still haven't even shared with her that I did this.

Dr. Ren: Oh. 

Norchelle Brown: it was literally, once I decided that I was gonna do it, getting in contact with my insurance- 

Dr. Ren: Okay ... 

Norchelle Brown: and then, and then going through the systems that they have in place. Because my OBGYN- Okay ... a couple years ago, she actually recommended a place, but it's not in my network. Okay. Okay. So if I would've gone there, if I would've gone to the place my OBGYN recommended, I probably would be in a totally different situation financially.

Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Ren: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So where would 

so the process is kind of it, you do go through your insurance, but it's not like you have to go talk to your doctor about it. You can just go through your insurance and then go to the center or whoever- Yeah ... is gonna do that. and then you talk to someone there.

Norchelle Brown: Yeah, because they're OBGYNs as well, and so- Okay. Okay ... they are going to, make sure you're ready for this. Mm-hmm. So they will have the same, of course, training and everything as a- Okay ... OBGYN that you would typically see, and they will be able to tell you whether or not you're a good candidate.

Dr. Ren: So I'm surprised that this is not something that they would communicate back to your ... 

Norchelle Brown: Well, she probably knows now. I just haven't talked to 

Dr. Ren: her. Okay. Okay, okay, okay. 

Norchelle Brown: Yeah. Yeah, she probably knows now. 

Dr. Ren: She probably knows now. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Nochelle. We appreciate you coming on, and, all success to your journey when you decide- Thank you

what you wanna do. 

Norchelle Brown: Thank you. Maybe I'll come back and give an update. 

Dr. Ren: Yeah, give an update on how your journey go. We will ... What you decide to do, hey, we'll be around. 

Norchelle Brown: Awesome. Thank you so much. 

Dr. Ren: You welcome. Take care. 

Norchelle Brown: Thank you. Bye-bye. 

Dr. Ren: Mm-hmm. Bye-bye.